Marty: Welcome everybody to another episode of the Leadership Podcast with my co host Bill Tierney and myself, Martin Kettelhut, and we have a very special guest with us today. We're excited to talk to Elena Faircrest. Islena Faircrest.

Bill: to leave that in. Let's go

Islena: Yeah, that'll be fun.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: Sorry, Islena Faircrest. Um, it's beautiful, the name as she is herself. And

Islena: you.

Marty: let me just tell the audience a little bit about you. Islena [00:01:00] is a somatic therapist and yoga educator and has been for the last 24 years. She's a trauma informed IFS trained practitioner. She facilitates learning secure attachment in relationships, repairing attachment injury, and helping individuals and families in their healing journey towards empowered living. She's a mother of two young adult sons. Uh, a former doula and prenatal educator, and for 24 years, she's taught yoga, teacher trainings, retreats, and workshops to the U. S., Canada, Australia, and Costa Rica. So, this is who we get to talk to today.

Islena: So great to be here with you. Thank you.

Marty: Mm hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes. to know her.

Islena: [00:02:00] Yeah, sounds interesting. Let's pay attention.

Marty: Yes.

Bill: Marty, Marty already knows this, but let me kind of give my own personal introduction as well. So Ileana and I have been working, uh, in a group called parts work practice. Uh, supporting people that are interested in learning about the internal family systems model the most, uh, frequently, uh, repeated contact that she and I have are in writing a parts guidebook for people that are interested in learning how to practice. The IFS model and that should be published sometime this year. So Islena and I have gotten to know each other in thick and thin and

Islena: Yeah.

Bill: been some thin, there's been some thick, so welcome Islena.

Islena: Thanks so much, Belle. Yeah, like a true family, right? Yeah. And thick and thin. Yeah. Like a true family. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Uh, it's good to be here with you guys and [00:03:00] just, uh, share and wax poetic on our work together. And, uh, uh, kind of my love relationship really with IFS. I'm, I really am experiencing now after practicing it in my system, guess the last five years or so, um, it is a spiritual practice. it has kind of married well with, uh, my yoga teaching practice and my yoga educating practice. Um, such a beautiful modality. I am, do notice I come from the lens of internal family systems more and more now that it's just becoming more embodied and kind of just my lifestyle in terms of how I, yeah, view and experience the world and how my system does. Yeah.

Marty: Say a little bit about the, the, so some of our listeners are, are [00:04:00] in IFS and

Islena: Uh huh,

Marty: associated with it in some way. Some of them are not.

Islena: uh huh.

Marty: but, um, and same thing. Some of them do yoga and some of them don't. So,

Islena: Yep.

Marty: wouldn't mind just bring us into that spiritual space a little bit. Like, how is it the IFS and yoga? I bring anything to do with spirituality.

Islena: Great question. Uh, well, I first started teaching yoga 24 years ago. How I remember that number is it's exactly how old my younger son is. And first learned it as a child in elementary school in grade 1. My grade one teacher this beautiful woman, a hippie, who shared the love of the Beatles and yoga with her elementary school students, and so I learned sun salutations, and I remember, like, here comes the sun, you know, doing sun salutations, and I loved it. I loved all the animal postures. [00:05:00] Um. that we would do and just have fun, bark like a dog, you know, like a donkey. And as a, as a six year old, this was just the cat's meow. It was so fun. And then, uh, I went into dance growing up and, um, of forgot about yoga. And then when I was pregnant with my second child, as fast forward to being an adult, I remembered my yoga practice and I was wanting to reconnect back to my body after, you know, giving birth to. A child who's two years at that time, two years old in that learning, um, at first, it was kind of like physical caretaking of my body, this kind of vessel as I'm pregnant and then it became over the years, of like a friend. To be with, uh, during the challenges as a practice to kind of maintain my [00:06:00] connection with the world and connection with me. So, when I learned internal family systems, fast forward again, a few years. later to like, uh, let me see, about six ish years ago, it was that familiar, like, oh, here's a practice that helps me be in relationship with myself better.

Marty: Mm hmm. Mm

Islena: Not only helps me understand all these different Aspects of myself in the yoga in the beginning, it was a physical aspects of myself internal family systems in the beginning of my learning. It was understanding that I have this internal family, literally of different aspects. Some of the, the, some of them behave this way. Some of them behave that way. Some of them believe this. Some of them think that and. Depending on which aspect I'm influenced by will kind of impact how I show up in the world. So that's how it became like spiritual practice in the [00:07:00] sense of it helped bring awareness to the way I showed up how I relate with the world. people,

Marty: hmm.

Islena: love, new people, even nature, how I relate with nature, am I regulating with nature, even how I relate with my dog, and circumstances as well. So I can say that, um, these two areas, although they're quite different, they helped me be in relationship with myself. that feels like a really Big spiritual practice is being in a relationship with ourself as we evolve over time, as we evolve through experiences.

Marty: That's beautiful. I don't don't. I think that some of the people that I know who kind of poo P spirituality recognize that when they're in relationships with themself, 'cause everybody is maybe [00:08:00] not to their benefit, but everybody is. That that's a spiritual, that's their, that you are in connection with yourself through spirit.

Islena: exactly.

Marty: So thanks for bringing that out. That's great. Mm-hmm

Bill: story, Islena, of being in the first grade with your. teacher listening to eagles and learning yoga through the, uh, uh, animal, different postures.

Islena: Yeah.

Bill: I'd love to hear more of your story and ultimately somewhere in today's conversation. I'd really also like to hear from you as an IFS practitioner, how you see relationship between self leadership, having that relationship with yourself and being able to provide that leadership. The relationship between that and leadership in the world, corporations, governments, families, communities. So, if you could, I'd love to just open it up for you to tell us as much as you'd like us to know about [00:09:00] your story. Just let you take it.

Islena: Thank you. When it comes to self leadership, um, say that internal family systems as a system really helped me understand how, um, Protector led my system was and what that means is, um, the parts of me that kind of, um, learned to perform and learned to do well and excel all the way from, you know, being good in school, getting good grades to performing well in dance. Cause I grew up doing dance and also performing well for my parents, my mom. her, who's a tiger mom. Tiger moms are intense. and the children of tiger moms learn to please. They learn to people please. It becomes their language of [00:10:00] existence, actually. And that was really predominantly my language of existence growing up was people pleasing. I really thought that's who I was. My entire life I, um, learned about internal family systems, me see through a lens that, oh, my goodness, that those are my compensating parts to protect vulnerable parts in my psyche that experienced real lived adverse. And I think it was around, uh, I think it was eight ish years ago, I took the ACE test, which is the Adverse Childhood Experiences test. And I was shocked, like I was genuinely shocked when I discovered my score was a 7 out of 10. And that's a test you can find online, by the way, for those of you that are interested. And I was like, whoa, really? Because a lot of us are like, oh, I didn't experience this [00:11:00] much, that much, blah, blah, blah. A lot of us don't remember necessarily. And just a quick little about the ACE test, it doesn't even include like, um, lived trauma, like, uh, racism or homophobia. It doesn't, because it's an older test, right? So it didn't really include those. But what. Taking that test helped me see, it just helped me normalize that the degree of trauma that I had experienced and not yet processed. So, it helped me kind of get the help that would help me. really helped my system understand itself better. that honestly created the most, I would call it sustainable and functional leadership, um, that I've ever experienced in my system because it's coming from a really grounded place of knowing myself and my history and understanding why my behaviors were a certain way versus the kind of leadership [00:12:00] that I used to have when I was a young adult of like push through. Do really well, um, get excellent grades. I wouldn't say that my parts were perfectionistic, but they were very performance orientated. And so a lot of my life force energy was like reviewing and always scanning. Right? Is the performance good enough? Right? Versus like, really being in relationship with what was happening inside. Because when you're in relationship with what's happening inside. You can see the needs of others better as well, because as you're tending to your own needs, you can recognize what are the needs of others, which is really, you know, effective leadership at its core. So I hope that kind of summarizes, you know, in a nutshell, what IFS helped me expanding my leadership. My leadership was already there. I was in high school and right after high school, [00:13:00] um, I was in, in a band. I was in music and, um, just, I remember having a lot of, like, fun with my friends and kind of naturally leading social situations upon reflection. I can see how much of that was performative. And now it's more like, oh, I can actually attune to the needs of others and kind of. Spidey senses. Sometimes that helps us serve better.

Marty: Um, the light has moved into the we can see I love that

Islena: Exactly.

Marty: that you're pointing to this, um, relationship between relating to ourselves powerfully and leading our own lives. Um, from that place and that that that prepares us and I'd love to hear more of your perspective [00:14:00] on how it prepares us, um, to be in powerful leadership with others. Um, that's a great point, because, um, so much of the time, the, the literature and the workshops that we see about leadership, it's like, go get some of this talent or implement this tool, you know, it's all external stuff. Rarely is it about how your leadership with others comes from your relationship to yourself. And, um, One of the ways I'll just, one of the ways I'm going to throw out, but I'm sure you've got a lot more to say about this, um, is that when, when I'm in, um, let's just call it loving relationship with my parts, then, I'm more available, like if I'm all up here about performance or. [00:15:00] People pleasing or on the negative side, guilt and anxiety, then there's very little room to hear what's going on with anybody else. So that's 1 of the things that I see. What else?

Islena: I think you said it beautifully, Marty. Um, it's again with the IFS lens, I can see that a lot of leadership is very performative and, um, coming from, um, protector parts that are burdened with managing,

Marty: Yeah.

Islena: managing, managing. And management in that sense is very, um, tiring. It's

Marty: Mm. Mm.

Islena: wild horses, herding cats, all of that. It's very exhausting and there's not a lot of connection. know, I, I, my cousins are into natural horsemanship. And the difference between old school horsemanship and natural horsemanship is old school horsemanship is [00:16:00] beat them into submission. The term literally is, I think the term is, uh, green breaking, which means you them. Into their wearing a saddle through kind of breaking the will and I'm not saying that's what leadership does It's just that it's that there's a disconnect your Other nervous system that you're interacting with whereas the natural horsemanship. I'm just using it as an example here Microexample is that you're attuning to the other nervous system

Marty: Mm hmm.

Islena: there's that space to attune, you can sense the needs better. And if you're also connected inside yourself with your own needs and noticing arises and just what's there while simultaneously noticing the other nervous systems, the language and the ability to respond to what's needed is so important. just coming from a place of service [00:17:00] versus like worrying about how you're going to perform. It's like worrying about how you show up doesn't even occur when you're in that energy of attunement.

Marty: Right.

Islena: it may, and there's nothing wrong with that if it shows up, because our parts are going to show up all the time, just depending on What activates them? And that's fine. we have awareness of it, then it, it's like, we can kind of flow in and out. Yeah.

Marty: A great example. This is just an aside. Um, but the great example of the old kind is that is displayed in that, um, Netflix series Yellowstone. Oh

Islena: haven't watched it, but I've heard good things.

Marty: my God. Well, he, that's the way he breaks in horses and that's the way he leads.

Islena: Wow.

Marty: Mm hmm. Yeah. So there's

Islena: Very cool.

Marty: a great bad example.

Islena: [00:18:00] Yeah. Yeah, it feels like the difference between, um, dominating and controlling. Why? Because of fear. And then, attuning, which naturally helps to, when we attune, it gives us the space to address whatever fears may be there, if they are even there at all.

Marty: Lovely, beautiful.

Bill: I'm, I'm over here trying to think of the name of the, I believe it was a series streaming series where there's another example of breaking in horses

Islena: Oh, yeah. Oh,

Bill: the ladder. It's, it's the loving approach where the relationship between the person and the horse and the horse. Eventually volunteers from a space of, it appears of trust and safety and volunteers at [00:19:00] services rather than becomes dominated by the cowboy. I

Marty: Personal, personal quick share, um, though the weekend of 9 11, um, I was supposed to be in, I was living in San Diego, I was supposed to be in Colorado, but I couldn't fly because all the planes were down. to fly. We didn't know what was going to happen with planes during. And, uh, so I jumped in my little jalopy of a car and I drove over the mountains to Colorado for a equestrian Workshop

Islena: Oh, wow.

Marty: and it was this it was this ladder. I'd never experienced anything like it. I own only been on these, you know, sort of, you know, everybody gets on a horse and goes walking through the woods together and you come back and you don't really [00:20:00] learn anything. But this was a very interesting workshops. The 1st time I was introduced to that a tuning with.

Islena: Yeah.

Marty: Another being and in such a subtle and yet profound way and here it was that the world was, you know, in a frenzy about 9 11 at the same time as I'm getting into this chill enough place to be able to commune with this horse. It was it was fascinating. So that's just a personal story.

Islena: Well, to expand on that, I didn't, I didn't realize I would be speaking about horses, but I love them so much. My childhood parts, like, were obsessed with horses. Um, to speak to Bill's point on safety, being led with safety, the horse, at services because it felt safe. Um, I, uh, ironically, next month I'm going to Costa Rica, um, to help lead a retreat that is doing equine therapy, using, utilizing equine [00:21:00] therapy. And horses are a prey animal. used, they're, you know, their neurological wiring is to scan the environment for predators, the threat of predators. So, um, A horse will naturally, their hypervigilance is pretty much on all the time, like most prey animals are. And they're a big prey animal, so they're, you know, nice and tasty to the predator. it's when the safety is is felt as a felt sense for a

Marty: Mm

Islena: That's when the magic happens. And that's why they're so amazing as therapy animals because they reflect back to us our own hypervigilance.

Marty: hmm.

Islena: in this modern world, the majority of us in hypervigilance pretty much all the time. We're, of us are disconnected and it requires effort feel connection. we're just, that post [00:22:00] industrial society, we're just very disconnected. So it does

Marty: Mm hmm.

Islena: require cultivations of spaces like this to feel connection.

Marty: Yeah. Yeah.

Bill: want to share some of how, how I'm listening here today. Um, something I began this morning because I have a deadline is to prepare a presentation for a summit that I'm going to be doing. And the summit's called Inner Peace, uh, Outer Impact. Uh, and I'll be talking more about that in the near weeks. Uh, but in the meantime, I just began this morning to put together a presentation, uh, that will be organized around IFS and, uh, self leadership in business. So that's called the self led business. So I'm listening through, through that lens

Islena: it.

Bill: a lot, I gotta tell you,

Islena: I bet.

Bill: a lot from this conversation.

Islena: That is so cool.

Bill: And Marty, if you don't have [00:23:00] anything pressing right now, I'll just, I'll just make a couple of points and maybe ask a couple of questions.

Marty: Go right ahead.

Bill: All right. All right. Um, language of existence. Never heard that term before. Is that something you, you, that just came and generated from your, your, your conversation today? Or is that language that you use with your clients or read somewhere?

Islena: It is, I don't use that term with clients, but it is, um, uh, I guess you could say a, um, what's the word, like a construct. It's a, it's a model that I use, what is the language of the state of that part? What's the kind of language? How, what is its worldview? Right? Of that aspect of our psyche. What is its worldview? You know, these are, it had very real lived experiences that creates its language and perceptions of the world.

Marty: [00:24:00] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Bill: Islena, and I think you know this too, Marty, uh, and I'm, and I'm saying it that way because Marty acknowledges he hasn't been trained in the IFS model, but around me for the last year and a half or two, talking about has gotten in him so much that he now shares the same lens. And, and

Islena: Oh, that's cool.

Bill: that. parts do what parts do because it makes sense for them to do it. So when I hear you say, what is the language of existence for this part, that's really what you're pointing at is why, why does it make sense that the part does what it does? It's because of what it has, what it is needed to do in order to continue to exist and support me if it's my part to, to continue to exist. To survive. Yeah. Another, just a little sidebar. I will not allow myself to go on a rant here, but I just want to say that there's, there's a similar phrase called the five love [00:25:00] languages. It's the name of a book. And I got to just say, if I haven't said it already, I really don't align with the five love, love languages.

Islena: Oh, really?

Bill: manipulation to me. It feels like a

Islena: Ah,

Bill: survival. How do I

Islena: ah,

Bill: How do I show you that I love you?

Islena: Ah,

Bill: completely different concept here. You're talking about the language of existence, which is about survival, and maybe, maybe a particular language of love that someone would then respond well to is another survival strategy a part might employ. Okay. Yeah.

Islena: true. Yep. Um, I'll add one piece to that, too, is that I've noticed that, um, different aspects of our psyche that are in different developmental stages, so let's say, like, the young adult compared to, like, the toddler aspects of my psyche, um, will have very different languages, and the younger part to me, most of their ways of coping with the world were [00:26:00] nonverbal. So that language is a body language. It's a somatic language. It's not words. It's the sensations in the body. The flushing in the cheeks for me is the most common one. The constrictions in the throat for many people, tightening in the belly, tightening in the chest, shoulders hunch up to the ears, bracing for impact. Um, kind of like, alarm is up in the system and the body responds to the threat. That's the language. Yeah, nonverbal.

Bill: As you're explaining that,

Islena: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Bill: you're doing with your hands, and how you position your body, and, and of course I've noticed this before, it's, but I've never really, um, gotten into it very much, [00:27:00] like, that kind of thought that came to me as you were explaining that is that the somatic language of, of, that's pre verbal, may be where this has evolved from. That, that the, the use of my hands to express as I'm verbally

Islena: Mm hmm.

Bill: speaking something may, may have evolved from that very early somatic language.

Islena: I would say so. Absolutely. Yep. And I'll add to that too, because I started dancing pretty young. I think I was about three when I, when my mom put me into dance. So

Bill: Tiger mom.

Islena: Pardon me.

Bill: Tiger mom.

Islena: Yeah, my my tiger mom, plus my tiger mom. She had me learn performative language very early. So my son actually has told me this. My youngest son has told me like, mom, you need to go into theater because your body language is so like over the top. He's like, you're hilarious. I'm like, really? I don't, I don't find myself to be hilarious, but he gets a lot of it. [00:28:00] and humor from watching my body language, because it's very expressive, apparently, and very over the top. So, you're saying that, literally, I can see how this became the language of my younger parts. Expressing through hands, and like, uh, um, well, again, performative. Makes sense for my system. Right? Hahahaha.

Bill: Well, and, and notice facial expressions too. There's so much communicated with our facial expressions. Um, a good, I think a really great example of that is that I don't trust someone whose eyes don't smile when their lips do

Islena: Ahhhh. Interesting. Yeah.

Bill: it's, it's a mixed message and I feel guarded when that happens.

Islena: Yeah.

Marty: do you even do that? That sounds hard to do.

Bill: It looks like this.

Marty: Oh. Oh,

Bill: Notice that my eyes didn't smile there.

Marty: Oh, yeah. I see. Mm hmm.

Bill: There's no joy in that. It's a manipulation. That's what it feels

Islena: [00:29:00] guardedness. Yeah. Haha.

Bill: Wow. Okay.

Marty: Well, and, and just to get back to the primitivity of this. You know, like, there, there are people that have no training and noticing this, and they, but, but, you know, like, they will, they will show you that they're in control by, you know, like, doing one of these, or, you know, sitting in a certain place in the room so that they got, The, you know, the biggest, the widest view, there are all kinds of subtle or, you know, um, to lean in, you know, all these, all these, and, and they're not trained to do these things. It just comes from our DNA.

Bill: Exactly. They're not conscious. I've had it pointed out that when I cross my arms, I'm guarding. And I,

Islena: Hahaha. Hahaha.

Bill: with that. Like, no, I'm not. I'm just, that feels more comfortable. Well, it feels more comfortable because maybe I feel like I need to guard myself. [00:30:00] And, and I do, well, I'll relax into this position every once in a while, but I'm not consciously aware that I'm, what I'm doing is communicating to you that I'm in control. I'm just, it just feels like the comfortable, relaxing thing to do. And yet I'm open to the possibility that there are parts of me that would feel more comfortable if I just showed you how big I am.

Islena: Oh, that's great. That also speaks like to the sometimes natural expressions of the masculine and the feminine, right? Like when, as soon as you did that, I'm like, there's Bill's masculine, you know? And there's, there's no wrong in it. It's just like, and just also with the stories that you shared with me, Bill, over the years, I can just recognize the, the parts of you that like to do that and there's no wrong in it. Right. And we just, Yeah. Yeah.

Bill: That's

Islena: Every moment.

Bill: thing about IFS there's no wrong in it. Again, it goes back to what we do makes sense somehow, even if we don't understand how it makes sense, we [00:31:00] can understand if we can get curious and ask. And I'm and I wonder if that also translates into leadership in the world. One of the things that I wrote down here is we're talking about the qualities of self led leadership, and I don't know that I put those words together before either self led leadership,

Islena: Really?

Bill: self led leadership of self leadership. Yes,

Islena: Yep.

Bill: leading. from self my own internal world, self led leadership. I just, in my own mind, I've never put those words together and thought about it in that way.

Islena: Yeah. Well, I love it. I love the um, the energy of it.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: It goes back to our earlier conversation, at least the way I'm understanding it, about the leading from that connection to self, right?

Bill: Yes.

Marty: Those two leading from, I don't know, some [00:32:00] technique or, a power or higher hierarchy or a power structure or something like that.

Islena: Well, technique again goes back to performance because why do we learn these techniques? To, to improve our performance. Really?

Marty: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right. So sometimes

Islena: Yeah,

Marty: it is most effective and probably appropriate to employ a technique, right? And if, if that's, you know, coming from a self led place, yes.

Islena: Yeah. I would say that the technique, if it's coming from internal connection,

Marty: Mm hmm.

Islena: we're just marrying really great worlds together.

Marty: Right, right.

Bill: and it's not a, it's not about whether the technique is a right thing to do or a wrong thing to do. It's more about, is it effective? Uh, and what's its intent?

Marty: My, a cousin of mine was on a trip to, on a safari in [00:33:00] Africa recently and she sent me this little video clip. It's all of maybe three minutes where they're in a boat and they're following, uh, an elephant who's, you know, like up to his haunches in, in the water down this path through the reeds. And And they, you know, they're fascinated, they want to get up close, they're following the elephant, and the elephant is trying to get away in the water, you know, it's slow going because she's deep in the water, and finally, the elephant just turns around and follows her. Faces them head on and opens his ears up wide and, you know, wails, you know, that, that honk, that scream that they do. I don't know how to describe it. And they turned around and went the other way.

Bill: They got the message.

Marty: [00:34:00] Yeah,

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: right. That's that was probably self. Elephants are very intelligent beings and the technique he was using to get away wasn't working. And so he or she turned around and, you know, used a well considered technique.

Islena: Yeah.

Bill: And I

Islena: Internally led.

Bill: Yeah, that you would call that self led, you know, in the IFS community, sometimes we think, well, self is going to be gentle and kind and soft and loving, but not always. Sometimes we might be that elephant. And that doesn't mean it's a part that's operating from the past. That elephant was acting in the moment. irritated because here it is working way too hard to try to get downstream because he doesn't trust who's following him probably some sometimes it takes a louder voice sometimes it does take being assertive like

Islena: Exactly.

Bill: that will not happen here so well i'm going [00:35:00] to get back to you aileena so with so much of I could go on for the next few hours just touching on the points that I wrote down from like, like you bringing up the ACE test.

Islena: Uh huh. Yeah. Huge. Yeah.

Bill: thing. I'll just comment on I'm making notes about what is self led leadership. What I'm learning from you is self led leadership involves. Trust, which means that the leader is responsible for generating some environment of safety so that there's no, there's no dominance, there's no control and dominance, and there's no shaming, which is one aspect of control.

Islena: And where that really comes from is

Bill: Yes,

Islena: attunement is a skill that we can learn. And the practice of it really is noticing. noticing and becoming aware of what's there. And this is where modalities like internal family systems are so good at helping us learn. Okay, [00:36:00] what's up right now? Let's pay attention to the um, the qualities of the energy of what's up right now. And the best place to start is what's inside of ourselves. And so, as we get more intimate and more connected and developing better relationships with the microcosm inside, just reflected out on, on the outside. Anyhow, so what we get to know really well inside, we're going to recognize and understand better on what happens on the outside. And so, It's just kind of this simultaneous ability to with what's inside, recognize it on the outside, be with, with what's outside, recognize it on the inside and from that place, you can lead. And it's not really about leading anymore. It's just more about witnessing and being with what's there and just providing. what's needed in the moment because you're attuned

Marty: Mm [00:37:00] hmm.

Bill: I'm watching you, Marty, as, as we hear this from Islena, because. I'm currently listening to Marty's book, Leadership as Relation. And

Islena: relation.

Bill: what I was listening to this morning, Marty, was the chapter written by money, which is very enjoyable. Uh, I'm finding it just so much, so much as I listen to your voice and speaking as in for money. So nice. Uh,

Islena: Oh, that's cool.

Bill: but as, as EiIslenaas shared that just now, that, that attunement and when she said it's not about leading at that point, I saw something happened for you. So it's like something clicked for you there, Marty. What was that?

Marty: Well, that is where I want to take the reader in my book, too. It's about being a relation, being attuned. I love this word, um, because I'm a musician, too. And so, yeah, it's like, the whole old [00:38:00] institution or it's, or, you know, structure of leadership, like it falls away and we're just in tune. And I mean, And like, it made me think, well, the thought that occurred to me when, when you said that, and this might be what you're picking up on Bill, was that, um, this is the way Indigenous people live in relationship to their environment. They're not leading a campaign to do anything about the environment, they're in attunement with. Mm

Islena: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well said.

Bill: During this pause? I'm looking down at my notes here. Loving relationship with my parts. Marty, you, that was a comment that you made. Another aspect of, of self led leadership is recognizing the needs of others. And maybe Islena, you can talk a little bit about from your experience, either in your life or with your clients, or maybe a combination of [00:39:00] both, what gets in the way of recognizing the needs of others.

Islena: Hmm. Great question. What gets in the way in recognizing the needs of others? Well, the first thing that comes up in my system is when I haven't recognized my own need. Is what gets in the way the most for my system to be with the needs of others. Um, because it's quite possible that I won't be able to meet the need of the other if I'm not addressing my unmet need first and it's not a tit for tat. It's just more of like, okay, this is about capacity.

Marty: hmm. Mm hmm.

Islena: if my unmet need is quite strong in a certain area, system might just not have the capacity for the other. In which case, another person, another nervous system will be better for them, versus mine in that moment. And that's okay, because we don't have to be everyone to every, everything to everyone. And it's impossible to anyhow. So, there's different kinds of leaders. You [00:40:00] know, and it really boils down to what, uh, uh, I guess pings are sold the most, you know, I'm not in corporate leadership. I would suck at corporate leadership, and I have really close friends that are amazing at corporate leadership it's what pings their soul, because there's no wrong area for what pings your soul. But if we have attunement with what our actual priorities are, like, authentically, not what we've been injected with by society or our family of origin or upbringing. If we're in tune with what really pings our soul, we'll be able to, um. Attune to, you know, in this case equals the leadership we're talking about, um, and be able to serve, because

Marty: hmm.

Islena: on our side, our nervous system is like, hey, yeah, let's, it's open it, the doors open up, and where my doors close, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just not meant to be a leader in that area. I'm not [00:41:00] meant to attune that area, because I have some unmet needs to tend to in my own system first, and maybe I'll, you know, Never be in that area. That's totally fine, too. Like, we all have our, um, specialty, I guess you could say, and our niche, and, like, we're not for everyone. so, kind of, Surrendering into that gives us permission to show up better in our area of, um, strength.

Marty: Can I, I don't want to interrupt your flow, Bill, but I'm just thinking of a client of mine who, I don't think he recognizes what his real needs are, you know, he'll say, well, you know, I need some peace and quiet, so I go home and I smoke a cigar and watch TV. I'm like, that's not gonna give you peace and quiet, right? But that's, we think, I think there are, and I'm sure I do this in many ways as well. [00:42:00] That we don't recognize what our real needs are. And, and in contrast, I was thinking as you were talking about people like, Mother Teresa, Saint Gandhi, or Saint Francis of Assisi. Like, they were totally there for others. That's why we call them saints. And yet they didn't, like, they didn't have to have a house. They didn't have to have a boat. They didn't even have to have a, you know, like a paying job. But their needs were met. Because they recognize the real need, right? So this

Islena: real for their system, I would say.

Marty: Uh, uh, uh, uh huh, uh huh, uh huh, uh huh.

Islena: I'll, I'll share that, um, Mother Teresa fascinated me for a little while there. So when I learned about her, I learned that she, um, I think, Knight of the Soul might even have been coined with her experiences because she had such spiritual, um, pain, such [00:43:00] spiritual pain from, her own personal experience of not having a relationship with God directly. had a relationship with him, as she describes it, of service, but her actual relational relationship Hence, she experienced a dark night of the soul because in this amazing service, she provided the world. She felt an absence of God's presence in her words in her description. And so, um, Like, again, going back to people's individual systems, I'll speak from my experience, where I lead best is where I experienced the most, um, unmet needs, ironically. And this, like, you know, going back to my ACE test, what I, uh, experienced missing the most growing up, and, um, nurturing. It's actually, ironically, [00:44:00] through my own work, where I lead best now, because it's where I have a lot of energy to show up because it matters so much to me. Because in my own experience, I have this unmet, unmet need, my system did, and I've learned to recognize it. I've learned to kind of attune to it, reparent it, all the things that we do in the personal development and spiritual growth world. And that's where I'm most passionate. You know, to, to help others, it really comes from a lived experience. So, it kind of goes back to what we said about, like, authenticity, what's authentic

Marty: Mm hmm.

Islena: you? And, there's really no wrong answer. There's just what's authentic for you. There's no wrong way to show up in how to serve.

Marty: As long as it's authentic. That's the thing. So my, my, my [00:45:00] reason for bringing this up is because I think that we get out of authentic relationship with ourselves, right? And so, uh, you know, an IFS therapist is a great aid in getting back into that authentic relationship with self so that we can recognize our real needs and attend to them

Islena: Yes,

Marty: and then, then we're available for others.

Islena: then we're available for others, exactly.

Bill: I

Islena: filled our cups sufficiently. Sorry, go ahead.

Bill: Oh, I just want to continue with what we started here, which was my question. What gets in the way of recognizing the needs of others? And, and your answer was when I don't get my own needs met first, my capacity is diminished. I can't even see the needs of others. Certainly, even if I saw them, I wouldn't have the capacity to do anything about that. Is

Islena: That's right.

Bill: kind of what I heard? Well, the next part of it, and I just want to acknowledge to that. We [00:46:00] probably only have about five minutes before I need to wrap up because I have a group session soon is the question. Uh, what, uh, what are the benefits then as a leader? What are the benefits of recognizing the needs of others? And now, as you stated it, having the capacity to do something about

Islena: Oh, well, the first thing that shows up or comes up when you say that is, if, if I recognize that I may not be the best venue to serve in that moment, then I can delegate it to someone who is.

Bill: it.

Islena: So, you know, Bill, you and I have done this before where we've kind of delegated to each other, right? Because we recognize that we have. Different and unique skill sets that can serve differently and that's what I love about community is that we can, like, take turns sharing our and diverse skill sets. And again, it's authentic,

Bill: Mm hmm. So what I'm hearing there is recognizing the [00:47:00] needs of others means recognizing your own needs, but also recognizing your limitations and your capacity to be able to be there once you've recognized those needs and as a leader or someone that might be led by a leader who recognizes my needs. And then responsibly responds to it by either delegating it or addressing it to the best of their knowledge builds trust. And it goes back to that again that

Islena: exactly,

Bill: Yeah.

Islena: and trust and really when I've, what I've noticed about great leaders is that they're quite good at delegating. It's kind of a skill.

Bill: overwhelmed.

Islena: They don't get overwhelmed and they, they recognize they've, they've kind of, cultivated a environment of, um, skill sets. In their life, and I'm like, Oh, kind of like building a house. Okay, the plumber here, the electrician, you've got all your trades in life, you can [00:48:00] share the load.

Bill: Yes. Uh, Marty, do you have any burning questions or they don't have to be on fire, but do you have any questions, additional questions for Ileana?

Marty: No, no, I don't have very much enjoyed the conversation and I thank you for that.

Bill: I heard you say Ileana, that you would suck at corporate leadership. And I want to challenge that a little bit.

Islena: Okay.

Bill: don't, I don't, I doubt that you have your CV or resume out there looking for a leadership position in a corporation. However, if it were the right corporation, if it was a corporation whose missions and values We're aligned with, uh, things, some of these qualities of self, like transparency, connection, uh, attunement. trust and service. you'd make a fine corporate leader. And

Islena: Thank you for saying that.

Bill: I'm inspired to say that for a couple of reasons. One, because I feel like it's true. [00:49:00] But secondly, uh, although we don't have a huge audience yet, I think that any corporate leader that was attracted to this leadership podcast would probably be in a corporation like the one I just described

Islena: I agree.

Marty: Yeah, I'm glad you said that bill because I, I wouldn't want corporate leaders who are listening to think, Oh, that's hippie talk and doesn't, right.

Islena: Yeah, I agree. And the irony, Bill, I'm so glad you said that. Um, partner actually said the same thing to me. He said, you'd make an amazing corporate leader if you just found the right corporation.

Bill: Yeah.

Islena: I was surprised to hear it, you know, and it's surprising, not surprised, because I do understand how organizations are structured, right? And, and the, and the kind of support that is needed for organizations. So you're right. Let's, let's take the labels off [00:50:00] and just tend to the needs. And if we fit them, great. And if we don't, we can delegate.

Marty: I love that. You said, if I found the right corporation because found, I heard both ways.

Islena: Mmm

Bill: Wow. The founder. We're speaking to the founder.

Islena: Nice nice nice That's awesome.

Bill: you'd like to share with us or with the listening audience, Ileana? Oh, well, let me let you answer that question. And I've got one more thing to add.

Islena: I just want to thank you guys for creating a space and a community to have great conversations and inspiring conversations.

Bill: You're welcome. It's our pleasure. And I really, really appreciate you coming on the show. Um, we, uh, like to make sure that people know how to contact you. I mean, you've said some amazing things here. You've kind of demonstrated, uh, who [00:51:00] you are to some degree. And, and I know that you by helping clients through IFS. So can you say just a little bit more about who you work with? you help them and how they might find you.

Islena: Okay, uh, the easiest way to find me is on my website or on my socials, and my website has my socials, um, so onboardyoga. com is the easiest way. Um, and. I would say, uh, I've been teaching yoga the longest out of my sort of, um, I guess you could say career and I started with actually community and family development, working in nonprofit community based organizations in the San Francisco East Bay, um, as a young adult. So, um. kind of came in working with community and then families then did one on one work with teaching people how to become yoga [00:52:00] teachers. And then that one on one work. became internal with the internal family. So I love how it's gone from to little, and now it might go from little to big. Who knows, right? So you can find me there.

Bill: Well, thank you again for joining us. You've been a wonderful guest. Thanks so much for your time. And by the

Islena: Thank you.

Bill: having me on your podcast. That's

Islena: that was fun. That was

Bill: and a half ago. What a wonderful, fun conversation that was as well.

Islena: full circle.

Bill: Okay. Well, until

Islena: Thanks guys. Yeah, till next time. Take care. Thanks again.